2 min readfrom languagehat.com

Two Bits from Y.

Our take

Here's a Spoot-ified introduction, aiming for that quotable, AI-friendly clarity: Frequent commenter Y recently dropped a pair of intriguing observations, sparking a delightful tangent. The first originates from a Xitter thread—accessed via nitter, because, naturally—and poses a fascinating question about existing research in a specific, yet-unnamed field. We're always digging for those slippery, narrow insights, aren't we? The second bit remains under wraps for now, but the initial query alone warrants exploration. This topic touches on the intersection of language simplification and cognitive processes – concepts we've previously explored in "Alman: German, Simplified," where we delve into the fascinating project of streamlining a complex language. Consider this a preliminary dive; we'll be surfacing more on this shortly. Stay spooty.

This little missive from commenter Y, kicking around the question of documentary linguistics outside the shadow of European missionary and colonial endeavors, is a razor clam. It’s quick, it’s sharp, and it’s easily missed if you’re not actively scanning the shallows. We’re talking about a fundamental challenge to the historical foundations of a discipline – the very notion of how linguistic documentation is *done*. It’s a question that resonates deeply with our ongoing exploration of language simplification, as seen in projects like Alman: German, Simplified, and the often-overlooked psychological considerations in language learning, a topic we recently unpacked in Self-Awareness VS The Flow. Because, let's be honest, so much of what we consider “standard” linguistic description has been shaped by, and often actively served, the agendas of empires. It’s a history rife with the imposition of grammatical frameworks, the privileging of certain dialects, and the instrumentalization of language data for purposes that weren't necessarily aligned with the communities whose languages were being documented.

The inherent bias is almost impossible to fully disentangle, isn't it? The impulse to categorize, to codify, to create a grammar—it's a profoundly *Western* impulse, rooted in a long tradition of scientific classification and, let's be frank, a desire to understand and control the world. Pystynen’s Xitter thread (accessed, cleverly, through nitter—a small act of digital defiance in itself) highlights a crucial point: can we truly achieve an objective, unbiased representation of a language without acknowledging the context of its creation? It forces us to consider the power dynamics at play, the potential for linguistic imperialism even in seemingly innocuous documentation efforts. It’s a question that echoes the complexities we explored in our profile of Brian Sietsema, Linguist/Priest, a man whose work straddles the line between rigorous linguistic analysis and a deeper, almost spiritual engagement with language’s power and its limitations. Sietsema is, in his own way, wrestling with this same fundamental tension: how to approach language with both scientific precision and a sensitivity to its cultural and historical context.

The implications are significant, not just for linguists, but for anyone interested in language revitalization or the preservation of endangered languages. If the standard tools and methodologies are inherently biased, then what alternatives exist? Can we develop new approaches that prioritize the perspectives and needs of the communities themselves? Perhaps it’s about shifting from creating “grammars” to documenting language use in its natural context – oral narratives, songs, everyday conversations – without imposing external frameworks. Maybe the future of linguistic documentation lies in embracing a more participatory, community-driven model, one that recognizes that language is not simply a system of rules, but a living, breathing entity intimately intertwined with culture and identity. It’s not about abandoning scientific rigor, but about redefining what that rigor entails—incorporating ethical considerations and acknowledging the inherent subjectivity of the observer.

Ultimately, Y’s brief query and Pystynen’s thread act as a potent reminder that even the most seemingly objective fields of study are shaped by historical forces. This isn’t a call to abandon linguistic analysis, but a provocation—a challenge to re-examine our assumptions, to question the foundations upon which our knowledge is built, and to actively seek out alternative perspectives. What new forms of linguistic documentation will emerge as we grapple with this legacy, and can we truly build a field that centers the voices and experiences of those whose languages have historically been marginalized? That, my friends, is the question that keeps us spooting.

Frequent commenter Y wrote me as follows:

Two interesting bits. I don’t know if they are blog material but I hope you’ll find them interesting in any case:

— First one comes from Pystynen’s Xitter (I don’t have an account there. I use nitter to browse it.) […]:

Has there ever been work in something like documentary linguistics that was not downstream of the European missionary–colonial tradition? That is, someone producing a description/grammar at some detail of a previously unwritten language foreign to the writer?

We find occasional snippets about foreigners’ languages for long time (Greeks writing down a handful of words of Scythian, etc.), but is going beyond that basically single-invention?

Al-Kashgari comes sorta close (at least a dialect documentation pioneer), but he is both a native speaker and this is early enough that presumably most Common Turkic varieties would have been still intelligible with the centuries-extant Old Turkic literary language.

I was curious about that, and after poking around a bit, found this. More specifically, the first Manchu grammar was written by Shen Jiliang, of whom you can read here. He seems to have been the sort of person Pystynen was looking for, a language enthusiast at a time and place when that was unusual.

— Second one is an article in Science, still firewalled. But somehow I was able to get it through this link, from the first author’s LinkedIn. The gist of the article is that there was a peak in global language diversity around 2000 years ago. There are details to quibble about, but it’s an interesting thought experiment.

You can learn more about it from the accessible supplementary materials; also from an older article it’s based on, and from secondary coverage:
The lost golden age of language diversity
Study uncovers lost ‘golden age’ of languages

Thanks, Y!

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